Curse

Paradise Lost · May 30, 2010, 09:28 AM // 09:28

Not an exploit, just as everyone else has said. Those that think it is are just bigots.

Femmefatal · May 30, 2010, 09:50 AM // 09:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

yes!! ban them all!!

I'm with YunSoo on this ban anyone an everyone who uses any kind of ingame exploit. Regina even said if you think it's an exploit then "DON'T DO IT". So I think they should start watching this one for a few months and ban another 10000 players. Soon we'll have really truely great players who don't cheat, don't exploit and play the game properly.

Gill Halendt · May 30, 2010, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoF

Tell that to those who didn't 'abuse this feature'...

Don't need to.

I didn't "abuse this feature", I got my titles the hard way. I got my PERSONAL reward (a title, and the gratification of actually earning it) and I won't complain if people get the same with less effort. I'm not envious, nor I advocate a ban for lazyness...

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoF

It's still unearned, even if the PvP thing is worse.

Sure, I'm all for fixing it. FIXING it, not banning people for a non-existent exploits, expecially since there's a whole lot of other abuses in the game (speed clears anyone?) that would then deserve the very same treatment.

I find this absurd witch hunt hilarious at best.

Nerel · May 30, 2010, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoF

Not fighting anything but the final 'boss' in Curse Of The Nornbear to complete the quest is to me the same as the PVP points you gain by this 'trick'. Unearned, undeserved.

So in PvP it's wrong, in PvE nobody should care?

That's kind of like saying avoiding pop ups in a vanquish is exploiting the game, surely Anet wouldn't have put pop ups into the explorable area if they didn't intend for you to pop them...

The speed booking thing would be so easy to fix, if it is indeed a bug and not an intentional design feature.

GoF · May 30, 2010, 12:21 PM // 12:21

I really thought that it wasn't that hard to understand that they don't spawn for performance reasons, and that they obviously are intended to spawn...
Pop ups obviously are another feature... meant to behave like this during normal gameplay.

Nerel · May 30, 2010, 12:59 PM // 12:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoF

I really thought that it wasn't that hard to understand that they don't spawn for performance reasons, and that they obviously are intended to spawn...
Pop ups obviously are another feature... meant to behave like this during normal gameplay.

Really, if it was just for 'performance reasons' then surely each spawn could check if the previous spawn had been dealt with before popping... other quests do this... why did Anet choose not to make this quest perform in a similar manner? Have they mentioned that it's an unintentional bug?

Gill Halendt · May 30, 2010, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerel

Really, if it was just for 'performance reasons' then surely each spawn could check if the previous spawn had been dealt with before popping... other quests do this... why did Anet choose not to make this quest perform in a similar manner? Have they mentioned that it's an unintentional bug?

Popups and spawns are two different things.

Popups are scripted and trigger when the specific requirements are met.

Spawns are regular mobs that populate each map. Each group of enemies you face in missions and explorables is a spawn.

Spawns aren't created unless you're close enough to their spawning place. That's a built in feature for performance reasons, likely not needed anymore, but inherited from the original engine that dates back to year 2005: putting ALL the mobs in place as soon as the map is istanced would have probably hindered the engine too much.

That's why it isn't technically a "bug": bugs are either coding bugs (syntax errors in the code) or logic bugs (bugs in the scripting logic). This is just a shortsighted design solution - there's no error in the code, it's intended and meant to work like that - that allows some form of abuse unless they redesign the mission accordingly.

MagmaRed · May 30, 2010, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks and Stones

Are you sure? What with the banhammer crashing down recently I really don't want to take any risks with my account.

Then you are asking the wrong people. Nobody on Guru works for Anet. All we can do is supply our opinion. If you want to be sure of the answer you get, PM one of the Anet staff members or send an email to Anet support.

maxxfury · May 30, 2010, 02:12 PM // 14:12

Less expolit, more optimizing your time vs reward.

GoF · May 30, 2010, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Then you are asking the wrong people. Nobody on Guru works for Anet. All we can do is supply our opinion. If you want to be sure of the answer you get, PM one of the Anet staff members or send an email to Anet support.

I agree. Lots of arguments here, no real answer in the end.
Ask Gaile on her page, she's always happy to help:
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_...Support_Issues

fenix · May 30, 2010, 02:14 PM // 14:14

If Speedbooking relies on mobs not spawning properly due to you being dead and heroes running ahead, then yeah, it's an exploit.

If it's simply using amazing builds and owning the missions in fast times, then you're set. But from what I can see on wiki, this is an exploit.

dancing gnome · May 30, 2010, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sticks and Stones

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team_-_Hero_Speedbook

I found this on PVX the other day, and it looked too good to be true. I had just speant quite some time maxing out a heroes handbook to polish off my norn rep title and this seemed perfect!

However..it seems kinda exploity- and I really don't want to loose my account or anything. Is this sort of speedbooking allowed?

This is A-Nets fault for not being specific about what is an isn't allowed in the rules. They go all ban happy without warning for things which people did for years without a ban (leeching and /resign) and now people are afraid to play the game.

Bans for things like speed booking should ONLY be done after A-Net comes out and makes a public statement, preferably in the log-in screen saying any people who participate in the future will be banned. People who did it in the past are fine.

Banning people for strategies which are popular, well known and long exhisting is going to hurt a lot of people who wouldn't have done the activity had A-Net simply come out and said it was a bannable offence.

The simple reality is Guild Wars is a game that has been played since it was released based on abusing AI, glitches and unintended mechanics.

Gyala Hatchery has an exploit where you can clear the mission before the turtle squad launches if u go right at the start.

Before factions, the held items (like gears and books) were used to exploit AI and force them to target the warrior so he could tank.

Lots of elite area tanking tactics involve standing next to a wall and forming a perfect 90 degree angle forcing the mob to lose aggro on the people in the distance and aggroing on the person forming the 90 degree angle with the wall.

The strategy for Duncan early on was to use a necromancer sunspear skill and I believe a pet in a way which prevented the party from fighting the spirits and thus made him very easy to kill without being hit.

In FA there are numerous locations Kurzicks can stand where the turtle will aggro but not hit them, and several more where the players can't either.

Guild Wars is a game that is played by game exploits that have existed for years. Because of poor game design in end game PvE exploits are how content is completed. To start banning people for using them now would truly be a jack ass move.

TL;DR A-Net needs to be specific on a regular basis about things they allow and disallow, terrifying people into behaving is going to make the game very stressful for a lot of people.

Lishy · May 30, 2010, 02:44 PM // 14:44

You know, I really have to say not to argue against speed booking. It's bad enough we have to grind annoying amounts of points to max our titles. Do we really need speedbooking removed from the game anytime soon?

Ravi · May 30, 2010, 02:50 PM // 14:50

@OP ; all you have to ask yourself is, did people get banned for HFFF? just like dancing gnome said, worst case scenario they'll nerf it just like they did with HFFF.

snaek · May 30, 2010, 03:07 PM // 15:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by cormac ap dunn

A guildie has mentioned numerous times that the reasoning for hero and Hench not triggering spawns is to save on server space, as to populate the entire instance would use up too much server resources to be practical. Assuming this is accurate, this is no bug, and no exploit, a design flaw perhaps

not perhaps, it -is- a design flaw, and people are taking advantage of it to clear missions faster than is intended; therefore it -is- an exploit.

majoho · May 30, 2010, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Why can't people just play the game like it's supposed to then there's nothing to worry about.

FlyMoto · May 30, 2010, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Speedbooking has no consequent effect - someone does the mission anyway, even if they are someone's heroes - , speedbooking doesn't exploit a bug, speedbooking isn't an exploit.

Please note that "bug" ≠ "programming oversight". We have no bug here, end of story. A bug is, for example, the ability to access an otherwise inaccessible developer outpost and taking advantage of it: even if the game is programmed to void access to anyone with no credentials, somehow you manage to slip through and abuse it. Then you're banned for exploiting the bug.

The only action Anet could ever choose to apply against speedbooking is to alter the poorly designed missions so that you can't complete them with the speedbooking techniques (just like they did with the HFFF missions).

An in-game nerf for a poor choice of theirs is the ONLY answer (an answer to a question no one has ever asked), a suspension for users is plainly retarded, unless they also ban runners, ferrymen to Consulate Docks, Permasins and whatever is out the basic design of the game.

Stop fooling yourself. Speedbooking is abusing functionality in the code which allows the user to bypass part of the game (an exploit). Why would they put all of those mobs in there when a player plays them if they were not supposed to be fought? The only one that is clearly not an exploit is ATFH where the mission is completed fairly.

The EULA states you are not allowed to abuse exploits, therefore a ban is definitely possible. With that said, I doubt they'd do that. There ARE advantages gained through speed booking but they are far less impacting on the game than other major exploits.

majoho · May 30, 2010, 03:25 PM // 15:25

I think it's a grey area.

From playing WoW I know blizzard differentiates between outright exploits and what they call "creative use of game mechanics" - I believe this would go in the latter category, in WoW only outright exploits are bannable.

dancing gnome · May 30, 2010, 03:27 PM // 15:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Why can't people just play the game like it's supposed to then there's nothing to worry about.

Because "playing like it's supposed to be played" isn't innovative and it doesn't lead to people finding a way to beat things like Elite areas. I would bet that 90% of techniques used to defeat bosses in elite areas were not intended. The entire use of Shadow Form for end game PvE wasn't intended. The entire history of solo farming is a testament to playing the game in an unintended way.

Player get onto betas for games because they are able to think outside of the box, that's what skilled play is.

I'd also like to note A-Net actually rewards people for playing the game in an unintended way. Ever head of Legendary Defender of Ascalon? That's a good example of players exploiting an unintended function of the game to do something that is supposed to be impossible. Not only do they not get banned for it but A-Net made a title for it. Doing things like rewarding players for doing unintended things in the game blurrs the lines for people worried about what actions are acceptable and which actions are not. This is why warnings for things that fall into the game abuse category are needed.

snaek · May 30, 2010, 03:38 PM // 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

Why can't people just play the game like it's supposed to then there's nothing to worry about.

exploits are very common, and many are considered harmless. one of the most common exploits are ai exploits because they are completely dumb that its so easy to exploit them. for example, in double dragon games there are various wall exploits, where the enemy will get 'stuck' and you can freely hit them. many of these things overtime generally get accepted as normal. in gw, one that i can think of off-hand is the "book trick" that was used in fow and sf that caused ai to only attack the holder of the book. the difference here, is that while the community accepted it as normal, anet said no and nerfed it.

ai is dumb amirite?

there are tons of exploits in gw and in all games. pvp has a ton too: the obstructed glitch, where standing on the edge of bridge grants you invulnerability against projectile attacks. the most common one that gets used nearly every single time in ha is the longbow to build up adren before triggering the timer.

exploits will always be a part of a game as long as there are bugs/design flaws. just be glad games like gw gets constant maintenance updates and bug fixes.